Mikey Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), joins Barry Stevens to discuss the alarming wave of complaints from U.S. military personnel. Over 200 service members from 50 installations have reported that commanders in their chain of command are framing the war in Iran as part of God’s divine plan to bring about the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming. Weinstein describes how Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth holds monthly Christian Nationalist prayer services in the Pentagon’s largest auditorium during the duty day, and how this top-down signaling is emboldening commanders to push religious ideology on their subordinates. Weinstein also confirms that some of the Christian Nationalists within the military are in positions involving nuclear weapons.
Barry Stevens
Welcome to theAnalysis. I’m Barry Stevens. In a few moments, I will be joined by Mikey Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, which has been receiving complaints from military personnel serving in the United States Armed Forces that some commanders refer to this war in Iran as part of God’s divine plan to bring about Armageddon and bring about the Second Coming. So this is a pretty big story.
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Joining me now is Mikey Weinstein. He is the founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, which is a nonprofit organization in the U.S., dedicated to the constitutional right of religious freedom in the United States Armed Forces. He also formerly served as an officer in the U.S. Air Force. He’s a lawyer and served as White House Counsel to the Reagan Administration for three years. He’s the author of many books, including With God on Our Side: One Man’s War Against an Evangelical Coup in America’s Military.
As I was saying in the introduction, you’ve been getting a lot of complaints about military commanders telling their personnel that this war is part of God’s divine plan. Can you tell me about this complaint?
Mikey Weinstein
Well, first of all, we’re in our 21st year as a civil rights advocacy organization. We have one mission, which is to protect the wall separating church and state in the technologically most lethal organization ever created by humankind, which is our U.S. military. We represent a little more than 100,000, actually a lot more than 100,000 members of the military now. About 95% are actually Christians themselves who are being terrorized by their chain of command for not being Christian enough.
After we all woke up on Saturday with this surprise attack on Iran, although there has been a lot of jingoistic saber-rattling about this, a number of hours later, we started getting calls, as we often do from military members, because we provide them AARP, and not the one you’re thinking about, Barry, but anonymity, action, results, and protection, particularly anonymity. They feel comfortable coming here. They know their identities will never be revealed. They were telling us that people in their chains of command were giddy, euphoric, and gleeful about this news because it buttressed their understanding of the Book of Revelation, which includes the Christian eschatological aspect of the end times in the Battle of Armageddon, and that this was showing that all the pieces are coming together.
Barry Stevens
Commanders were actually saying this.
Mikey Weinstein
They were saying it, yes. Some were inviting their subordinates to their houses on Sunday for Bible studies to further discuss this.
Now, this wasn’t across all the military, but initially, we got over the period of about two days, about 110 complaints from 30 different installations. We don’t know if it came top down from Hegseth or not, but just like when people watch the Super Bowl or the halftime show with Bad Bunny, everybody talks about it. Well, this was shocking news. We’re suddenly at war. We attacked unprovoked. We attacked Iran, a country that had been intimidating us as much as Mickey Mouse was doing, and we had no congressional approval for it.
In any event, this was something that was considered to be pretty shocking, certainly as I’m trying to justify our War Department, following some version of this extremely conservative but very prevalent in MAGA, Christian Nationalist perspective.
We got about 110 for the first couple of days, and then we broke the story with one particular reporter, Jonathan Larsen, and it went viral. Then we got another 100 more, so way in from 20 different other locations. We’re not going to give the exact numbers out because we don’t want to provide any further help to the Pentagon.
Remember, our clients noted three things in particular. Well, the first was that our Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, does something beyond repugnant, repellent, and unconstitutional. Every month, he has a Jesus praise service in the Pentagon, in the largest auditorium in the Pentagon, Barry, held during the duty day with people in uniform there, espousing this exact Christian Nationalist rhetoric, which Christian Nationalism does not like the Constitution, and it wants to change our country into, if you’ve read Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale or seen the Hulu series, Gilead. It’s a fictional Christian. We actually had the showrunners of that show years ago reach out to us for input. They were first thanking us for fighting this dystopian future that they show on their show, and we gave them some input from the military.
Barry Stevens
Now, Hegseth is a guy who actually has, if I recall, a reference to Matthew 10: 34, where he says, “Jesus says, I do not come to you in peace, but with a sword.”
Mikey Weinstein
Yes, on his right bicep, it says, ‘Deus Vult’, which means God wills it, which is a motto of the crusades, which went from the 11th century through the 13th century. It’s the exact wrong thing to be doing, to be providing such a profound propaganda bonanza to ISIS, Al Qaeda, and the Taliban. We’re at war now with Iran. It’s the worst possible thing. But Hegseth does these Christian prayer services during the duty day, and he’s done 10 of them. The last one was on February 17th, not even a month ago, where he brought in his personal pastor, Doug Wilson, who’s well known for saying that women should not have the right to vote. They should be consigned to raising children, getting pregnant, raising children, buying food, cleaning up after food, serving meals, etc. He believes that slavery in America was biblically justified, and he points out that many slave owners actually were nice to their slaves, the way they were nice to their living room furniture. Jews killed Jews.
Barry Stevens
I suppose there he’s not violating the Constitution of the 18th century. But there is this First Amendment, which says that the United States is not supposed to have an established religion, written by James Madison, to make it safe for many religions and to have religious freedom. Isn’t Hegseth violating the Constitution?
Mikey Weinstein
Of course he is. His oath to it. Absolutely. But it’s not just that. When we founded our country, our constitutional framers looked at Europe, where most of the bloodbaths that had occurred there had been when men of the cloth had been men in political power. Barry, they looked at Cromwell in England. They didn’t even have to leave our shores. They looked at the Salem witch trials. They said, “Not here. We’re going to cleave a Grand Canyon between the spiritual and temporal church and state.”
They also put something else in that most Americans are unaware of. A lot of Americans don’t even know about the separation of church and state in the First Amendment. But Clause 3, Article 6, Barry, says, “We will never have a religious test for any position in the federal government.” Let me tell you, when you’re a marine, sailor, soldier, airman, or Guardian, that’s what they’re called in the Space Force, you’re in the federal government. Hegseth has created a de facto religion test as well, also violating his oath.
Why would anyone be surprised in an incredibly competitive military, Barry, where they look every month at this guy doing what he’s doing, that commanders wouldn’t sit there and make these statements?
As of this morning, 30 members of the House of Representatives, all Democrats, sent a demand letter to the Pentagon Inspector General saying, “Do an investigation.” Now, we don’t have any high hopes that under Hegseth, these particular Inspector General stormtroopers will do anything other than make it clear that this didn’t happen, or if it did, we want to know. If you validate that this happened, is it okay? Is it okay that they said that? Are you down with this? Even if you’re saying, “Of course, it didn’t happen,” I guarantee you our clients aren’t going to trust anybody from the Inspector General’s office from Hegseth.
Remember, most of our clients are junior enlisted or junior officers. They’re young. They have families. They’re pregnant. They’re raising kids. Although we have them all the way up to four-star generals and four-star admirals. But when they look at vulnerability, they look at someone who is actually not quite so vulnerable. This person was a naval fighter pilot, a war hero, an astronaut from NASA, and he’s a sitting U.S. Senator, Mark Kelly. Hegseth had to drag him back in off of his civilian status, drag him back in, retry him in a court martial for violating the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the military criminal code, because he simply, along with five other members of Congress, did a video reminding military members to do what, Barry? Only follow legal orders, not illegal orders like shooting college students at Kent State or slaughtering Vietnamese at My Lai. They look at him, and it terrifies them. They’re not going to trust anybody else to go talk to.
We’ve been working for 21 years to create a brand of safety, and we will protect our clients at all possible costs with their anonymity. Our job was to get this out in the media, and that’s why we’re talking to you today.
Barry Stevens
Well, one question I would have is if you believe that Armageddon is part of God’s divine plan, and this war is part of that divine plan, do you think you’re more likely to try to make it come about? Do you think you’re more likely to be more aggressive in your-
Mikey Weinstein
I think that’s fairly intuitive. Fundamentalist Christians delight in the fact that they are given a particular metric that is disgusting, that there will be a 200-mile-long river— it’s a long way, Barry— four and a half feet deep, filled with nothing but the human blood of those that their version of has slaughtered at the Battle of Armageddon.
Now, you can believe what you want, but the bottom line is your personal Christian Nationalist views will always be subordinated to the civil rights of your fellow Americans; that includes in the U.S. military. There is not going to be a place where you can displace our Constitution because our members of the military swear an oath to not support, defend, and protect a particular person like Trump or a particular weaponized version of Christianity, but to our U.S. Constitution, which makes our country beautiful the way it is. No one has ever done that before. Israel, as a matter of fact, doesn’t even have a Constitution. This is extraordinarily dangerous. Our clients are thrilled because we got it out. It is all over the world now. They want to hear from the Pentagon. Are you going to deny it? Are you going to investigate? What I want to hear is that— I don’t mean to cut you off.
You tell us whether this behavior is okay. You think it’s okay? If they go, “No, no. It didn’t happen. It’s completely preposterous.” I doubt that’s where it’s going to be. We’re very fortunate that we even got one email from our several hundred clients to write in to explain what was going on. Of course, people can attack that, going, “Well, that’s bogus. It’s not real. You’re just trying to get attention.” We are trying to get attention for our clients because they do not have a voice. If you’re even being gently evangelized, Barry, by your military superior, get the hell out of my face. Our man is not an option for you, so we do it for them.
You’ve got to remember, most people don’t realize that the military is peculiarly adversarial, communal, ritualistic, and tribal. And that your military superior, Barry, is not, not, not, not, not, not your shift manager at Starbucks or your boss at IBM.
Barry Stevens
I understand.
Mikey Weinstein
They have complete control over your life.
Barry Stevens
You mentioned Armageddon, which, of course, is an actual place in Israel. Israel is, in this war, an ally of the United States, a leading ally, you could say. What’s the relationship between this Christian nationalism and Israel?
Mikey Weinstein
Well, it’s really very hypocritical. In the concept of Christian nationalism, they need to have all the Jews aggregated in Judea Samaria, which will serve as an accelerant or lubricant to bring back their version of Jesus on a white horse. As a fundamentalist Christian Nationalist, former three-star general Jerry Boykin said, because the Revelation says that (Revelation singular), that indeed Christ will be coming back on a white horse with a sword. Jerry Boykin says, “No, it’s going to be an AR-15.” They need to have all the Jews in one place.
From my perspective, it’s very much like the night before the first Thanksgiving. You say you love the turkey so much, but you end up killing the turkey and eating the turkey. It’s not as if they love Jews. They need to have all the Jews geographically, Jewish hegemony in the Middle East, and that triggers where things are.
The concept of thinking that we need to do this, start this war to help Jesus come back because he can’t do it on his own, there is a time, place, and manner to express your religious faith.
Barry, let me ask you a question. You look like somebody who owns a vehicle. Do you have a car?
Barry Stevens
I don’t right now, but I have.
Mikey Weinstein
All right. Do you have a driver’s license?
Barry Stevens
Yes.
Mikey Weinstein
Does that mean with your driver’s license that you can drive a car whenever you pretty much want to?
Barry Stevens
Not when I’m drunk.
Mikey Weinstein
That’s the answer. If you’re drunk, stoned, on medication, or too tired, you may not drive your car. It’s time, place, and manner. If you want to proselytize a particular weaponized version of any faith, but particularly in this case, Christian nationalism, that’s fine, but there’s a time, place, and manner to do it. Let me tell you something, Barry. That time, place, and manner is not during the duty day in the Pentagon’s largest auditorium in uniform, where they are televising on Channel 2 everywhere. That sends the message all the way down, and it terrifies, but it obviously incentivized a large number of people who are subordinated and figured, “Well, we got triggered by this surprise war. I’m going to tell my troops that, hey, it’s okay because the Lord selected Donald Trump to be the signal light, the North Star.”
Barry Stevens
Anointed by Jesus.
Mikey Weinstein
Right. Again, my point is this: we’ve got it out everywhere in the world now. People are discussing it, and they’re not going to find our clients. Our clients have the guts to come forward, and we will always protect them. In our 21-plus years of doing this, we’ve never come within light-years of exposing this to anybody else. That’s what we want answered. We want to hear that from Hegseth. Is this okay?
Barry Stevens
You’re hoping or you think he won’t say this is preposterous. He’ll just say you’re lying.
Mikey Weinstein
Well, right now, Barry, he’s gone five days saying nothing. Nothing at all. Although we were telling members of the media, let me just get this in, please, shortly. Telling members of the media that we’ll have something for you by the end of the day. They’ve done that five days in a row. Today was supposed to be by noon. That’s what [inaudible 00:15:24] did, and noon East Coast time, and they blew right by that as well.
I’m sorry. You go ahead. I’ve got another couple of minutes.
Barry Stevens
Yeah, thank you. I just want to ask, we’re working on a documentary about nuclear weapons. I must say it scares me a little bit without revealing any... breaking open the anonymity. Can you tell me if any of the people who have this Christian Nationalist attitude are working in control of nuclear weapons?
Mikey Weinstein
The answer to that would be yes. Yes.
Barry Stevens
Well, that’s a very scary thought.
Mikey Weinstein
Well, of course it is. Look, our United States military is the technologically most lethal organization ever created by our species, Homo sapiens. It’s where all the nukes are and the drones and the laser-guided weapons and the conventional weapons. I can’t go any further than that. We do ask them what their MOS or AFSC or SFSE is. That means their occupational codes for the Space Force, Air Force, Marine Corps, Navy, and Army. We don’t force it out of them, but they will gladly tell us. It’s part of our best effort to do due diligence when they call in. But the idea that this was a massive synchronized ballet where people called in or were lying about it. No, my friends, we are here to bring their voices forward.
It reminds me of one of our very first cases, and I’ll end on this. When we had first started, we got a message from a young 19-year-old Navajo sailor on an enormous U.S. Navy aircraft carrier in the Pacific. His faith, I live in New Mexico, the Navajo Nation, he’s Navajo, is the largest geographically for a Native American tribe and the largest enrolled number of members. He was being viciously proselytized to by his chief petty officer. We were able to get that chief petty officer, certainly not under Trump, he would probably be promoted, disciplined, and moved to the far side of the ship. They’re like cities. There are 5,000 sailors there.
About a week or two later, we got a message through a place called Window Rock, Arizona. I’m in Albuquerque, and that is the capital of the Navajo Nation. To this day, it gives me goosebumps. The message was simply from the parents of the young sailor. The young sailor had said, “Please tell Mr. Weinstein in the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, thank you for being the voices we’re not allowed to speak with.” I think about that every day, in every way. And that’s what we’re here to do. We can take criticism, everything else like that, but that’s what we’re here for.
Barry Stevens
One tiny more question. You’re talking about this within the military. You know a lot about Christian nationalism within the military. Presumably, it’s a fairly strong movement. Do you fear domestic issues that, in other words, the military could be used against the Constitution within the United States because of Christian Nationalism?
Mikey Weinstein
Trump has already talked about using the Insurrection Act to ‘trump,’ if you will, the Posse Comitatus Act, which prevents the use of the military for law enforcement. But that’s already been threatened. My fear is that-
Barry Stevens
Are there enough Christian Nationalists to make a threat against the Constitution?
Mikey Weinstein
Yes. It is our best estimate that somewhere in the high 20% or low 30% are Christian Nationalists. But remember, Hitler only had 7.9% in his white Nationalist Socialist Movement. Stalin had 2.9%. When you graduate from a military academy, as I did, the Air Force Academy. My dad went to Annapolis, and three of my four kids went to the Air Force Academy. When you graduate as an ensign or second lieutenant, on that day, you outrank 90% of the military because you’re an officer. And I fear that even if we have a blue tidal wave in November and take both houses of Congress, Trump will be impeached, and maybe this time might actually be found guilty. You think he’s going to leave? I don’t, and I think that could trigger a civil war. The damage being done to our military in our country right now is not going to be solved by midterms. I think it’s generational.
We have to be able to follow what the girlfriend of Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, said, which is that action is the antidote to despair. To anyone watching this, do something. Get off your asses, go to a demonstration, support organizations like ours. We’re nonprofits that are out there fighting for this. We’re not the only ones, but we’re fighting. Be like the people of Minneapolis. If you hear something, in a mall or in a restaurant and you don’t agree with it, have enough guts to tell somebody that. Stand up, contact your members of Congress. We’ve got to use the tools of democracy to fight against this or we’re going to be gone, and I don’t want to live in a Gilead. You have to have an answer for your children and grandchildren who, if we get out of this, will someday look at you and say, “What did you do, Mom and Dad, Grandma and grandpa, to fight against this?” I know it says March 6, 2026, but it feels like March 6, 1933, in Nazi Germany. I very much appreciate the opportunity to be on this today.
Barry Stevens
Thank you, Mikey Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. Very much appreciate the interview.
Mikey Weinstein
Please shoot us a link when you’re done. We’ll get it out there.
Barry Stevens
Absolutely will.
Mikey Weinstein
Thanks again. Take care, Barry.
Barry Stevens
Bye bye.
Mikey Weinstein
Have a great weekend.
